Category talk:British legal professionals

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See category talk:British jurists for discussions before the category was moved. — Instantnood 12:58, Mar 30, 2005 (UTC)

The category has just been renamed using the Speedy process.[1] I have merged the page history for now; the old content was as follows. – Fayenatic London 10:30, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

I think this category should be changed to "British lawyers". The parent category may be called Jurists, but that is probably because it was set up by an American. The word "jurists" may be in British dictionaries, but it simply isn't normal British English. I think that many British readers will have little idea what it means and will therefore avoid it. British lawyers is a more user friendly title and thus likely to attract more users. Any comments? Wincoote 23:28, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)

• Is there a comparable word in British english to "jurist" that encompasses all legal professions? That's what was used on William Blackstone, which was what instigated me to create the set of categories. Postdlf 00:30, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)
  • Just lawyers, which doesn't mean quite the same thing, but it will have to do I think. It is quite understood in the UK that judges are a subclass of lawyers, rather than a distinct profession, so that won't confuse people. I don't think it will mislead anyone, but if you want it can be stated in the blurb that not everyone listed is necessarily qualified to practice law. Sir William Blackstone died 225 years ago, and the term was perhaps was current in the UK then, as America presumably inherited it from the UK. An analogous term is "antiquarian", which appears in a number of British people articles, but is no longer in everyday use. There is a category:British antiquarians, but everyone in it is long dead, and the word is no longer used for a profession. Wincoote 01:46, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)

02:42, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)~~

Well I've no idea what a "jurist" is, so perhaps you could let me know and then I might have a more informed view. Does it mean the same thing as lawyer? For what its worth the term "lawyer" in England might encompass: solicitors, barristers, legal executives, notaries, scriveners (though the last two will almost always be another kind of lawyer) and perhaps patent attorneys (though I know little about them).

Next question: why "British"? I can't think of any way in which "British" is a useful category for law -- who does it refer to? England, England and Wales, Scotland, the United Kingdom etc are useful legal categories, with certain aspects of law common to them.

Certainly "British Barristers" makes no sense. You will find advocates in Scotland not barristers. Quite a different system too.

Francis Davey 01:10, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)

A further point: British Law Professors ought to be British Legal Academics. This side of the pond many eminent academics don't get professorships, which are not handed out with quite the vigour they are in some other places.

Francis Davey 01:14, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Jurist is a broad term. The definitions in the shorter OED are:

• (Late 15th Century): A person who practises in law. A lawyer; a judge. Now US.
• (Early 17th Century): An expert in law; a legal writer.
• (Late 17th Century): In the ancient British universities: A person studying or taking a degree in law.

The phrase "now US" in the first definition is the key.

British is useful because the (renamed) main subcategory needs to go in category:British people by occupation. Category:United Kingdom people by occupation doesn't exist. There are Scots who practice as barristers in England and they should be in a barristers category, but there should also be an "Advocates" category, if anyone creates any articles about advocates. Scottish advocates (including any who might happen to be English etc) are British and they are lawyers. That is all the category means; it is a guide to users towards the subcategory which contains a particular type of article, not a job description.

I think it should be remembered that the main function of the categorisation system is to provide a practical access route to articles, not to make definitive judgements about people or things. Where there are complications, these can be mentioined in the blurb at the top of the category. The term "British lawyers" is not ideal, but I think it is best adapted to guide people to the right place. The alternative is perhaps British people in the legal professions, but does that encompass academics any more satisfactorily? "Lawyer" is a fairly informal everyday term, and does not have a fixed ("legal") definition. The only option I can think of that indisputably embraces everyone is British people connected with law, but that won't do, firstly because it is clumsy, and secondly because it would cover MPs, Peers, police officers and so on.

I agree on the law professors point, but it isn't urgent unless someone writes an article about a legal academic who isn't a professor (I haven't checked if anyone has). Wincoote 02:42, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Following the above discussion, in March 2005 Wikipedia:Categories for deletion/category:British jurists ended with consensus to use "legal professionals". – Fayenatic London 10:53, 22 November 2023 (UTC)