Talk:Ferrari

Locked Page? Fine

But then someone needs to proofread really good.

Ferrari 500 Mondial

I have read that in the mid 1950s Ockelbo-Lundgren made a replica of the Ferrari 500 Mondial (now sold as Pagano[1]), but I haven't managed to find any info on it. It don't seem to be on the list here. Was it overlooked or is it listed under another name? // Liftarn

Success of Ferrari

Ferrari was also succesful in the 2000's (VERY SUCCESSFUL IN F1), winning 5 out of 7 championships in the 2000's so far.. i'm adding the 2000's to the intro.

Carerra Panamerica

Hi

Ferrari built and shipped 3 cars for the last (cancelled) Carerra Panamerica race in the 50's. A friend of mine Jim Hall of Houston TX, not to be confused with Jim Hall of Chapparal fame (they did compete against each other when the Chapparal was still a front engined car). Bought one of these 3 4.9 Ferraris and raced it up into the late 60's at SCCA events in Texas. This car was very fast for it's time. It was clocked at 183mph at the annual 4th of July event in Galveston TX. There was nothing tempermental about this Ferrari. It would sit idling for hours in the texas heat between races in the pit area.

I have never seen any documentation of this car, and would be interested to find where it wound up.

Surprised there has been no mention that Ferraris are among the most desirable cars ever made, and are one of the ultimate status symbols of wealth in the western wealth. So I've got the ball rolling.

External Link

Hi i have currently made a new exotic car site here. I was wanting to add the relevant pages to relevant wiki pages and wondering if thats ok to do so? Please let me know.

Thanks

Richard

The quality of the page is really low - please improve the text

Hello Guys,

I'm trying to convince a friend of yours to collaborate in improving the text. Up to this time seemingly without success...

Among several errors here and there, what the text lacks most is the link between success in sportcar races / series car production and f1 endeavor.

A key point to consider here is the fact that Ferrari was born to race sportcars. As a marque, since its startup period, it manufactured sportcars, competition GTs and formula cars at the same time, in addition to road cars. With limited human and economic resources available, it was the only manufacturer that did this. And you can imagine how much a multiple competition program had costed (travel cars and people internationally, refurbishing and mantaining several types of engines at the same time etc, adapting their racecars to multiple rules) It also did this with immense success both before and after the institution of the sportscars championship in 1953.

A more thorough presentation of the Ferrari success in the world sportscar championship should be added.

Another key factor to consider is the advent of Ford in european motorsport. In the present version of the text, it is wrongly stated that Ferrari searched for Ford's help in 1963. Please check and correct this. It was Ford that approached Ferrari with a buying offer. Also, the economic and political power of Ford completely changed european racing forever. As for Ferrari, this event made evident that it was no more possible to lead multiple racing programs at the same time with the resources available. At the end of 1973, Ferrari abandoned sportcar racing to fully dedicate itself to f1. As a consequence, it went on to narrowly lose the 1974 f1 championship with Clay Regazzoni and to win several championships in the late 70s.

A third key factor that is not apparent in the text is that, after the retirement of Forghieri and the gradual phase out of the "old Ferrari" even if Ferrari in the 80s and 90s hired british specialists for the design of the f1 chassis (Barnard, Nichols etc), that were hailed as geniuses in their field of expertise by the press, the f1 program did not meet with much success. If you remember, in several seasons the f1 car was utterly wrong and not competitive.

As a general impression, the text right now seems to be written with limited knowledge of the history of the brand. In several parts there are wrong, subjective comments or alterations of the facts.

The 1967 Dino 206 Gt was not the first MR engined road Ferrari. The first was the 1963 250 LM that was not granted homologation for racing in the GT category of the 1964 WSSC but that still could be bought as a roadcar (it was sold with seats....) and was effectively sold to a few rich clients that do not raced it.

The text also lacks some detail as to the firm development in the different periods of its history.

What do you think? 151.44.36.9 (talk) 09:01, 26 August 2023 (UTC)

151, thanks for bringing this here. I think that your comments are likely to gain more traction if you can propose specific changes and, crucially, supply sources that support what you believe that the article should say. Best, Wham2001 (talk) 06:08, 29 August 2023 (UTC)

Hi Wham,

I'll start with these :

1)

ACTUAL CONTENT IN THE PAGE

"... It soon began searching for a business partner to handle its manufacturing operations: it first approached Ford in 1963, ....";

That is wrong!

Could you please provide a source confirming this?

Have you some knowledge of the way things went on?

I SUGGEST THAT YOU TRY AND READ FOR EXAMPLE : LORENZO DAL MONTE'S ENZO'S BIOGRAPHY "FERRARI REX" - I THINK THAT THERE'S AN ENGLISH VERSION OF THE BOOK AVAILABLE.

It was Ford that approached Ferrari with a buying offer.

If you try and read the book, the author is able to provide photos of the actual contracts that were discussed with some interesting details.

2) the 125 v12 engine was declined into many models the 125s, 125 f1 etc

In the text there's a reference to the many victories obtained by this model in 1947. This isn't completely true.

Could you please provide a source confirming this?

Here available books may lack needed detail but if you would like to examine major results in grand prix races and sportscars races in the late 40s (even related wiki pages could help you), you will be able to find evidence that the 1948 and moreover the 1949 years were milestones in the sporting history of the brand.

Please, look up the results for the 1949 24h of Le Mans, 1949 Mille Miglia, 1949 24h of SPA, 1949 Targa Florio results (you can find them even on wiki), with the 166MM model being able to win them all in that year.

This was a turning point for Ferrari : those were the major international sportscar races.....

MAYBE A REFERENCE TO THE 166MM's success should be added to the text.

Also, as i've written before, what the actual text lacks is a more torough coverage of the sportscar's racing programme.

This was instrumental in the development of the brand, helped propel the sales of the sportscars and later GTs to rich, famosu people etc....

PLEASE DON'T ARBITRARELY ERASE THIS POST 151.38.35.175 (talk) 13:09, 2 September 2023 (UTC)

Since it's been a long time into this discussion, i'll directly propose an abridged version of the current text for you to ponder about.

For ease of working together and as a starting point, i'm following the structure of the current text.

Please, make evident to me where you find the new text to report info that needs to be clarified or that, according to you, it's not already known by someone who is knowledgeable in the history of the brand and related themes.

HERE - FIRST PART OF PROPOSED NEW TEXT

Ferrari S.p.A. (/fəˈrɑːri/; Italian: [ferˈraːri]) is an Italian luxury sports car manufacturer based in Maranello, Italy. Founded in 1939 by Enzo Ferrari (1898–1988), the company adopted its current name in 1945 and began producing its line of cars in 1947. Ferrari became a public company in 1960, and from 1969 to 2014 it was a subsidiary of Fiat S.p.A. It was spun off from Fiat's successor entity, Fiat Chrysler Automobiles, in 2016.

Ferrari's cars are known as symbols of success, wealth, speed, elegance, sportiness, and prestige.[6] The company currently offers a large model range which includes several supercars, grand tourers, and one SUV.

With its racing heritage that, through its founder racing career and then the foundation of the Scuderia in the late 20s, encompasses almost the whole history of motorsports, it represents a sort of living monument to racing.

Many early Ferrari's cars, dating to the 1950s and 1960s, count among the most expensive cars ever sold at auction. Owing to a combination of its cars, enthusiast culture, and successful licensing deals, in 2019 Ferrari was labelled the world's strongest brand by the financial consultency Brand Finance.[7]

Throughout its history, the company has been noted for its continued participation at the top level of motor racing, especially in Formula One, where its team, Scuderia Ferrari, are the series' single oldest and most successful. Scuderia Ferrari have raced since 1929, first in Grand Prix and sportscars events and later in Formula One, where since 1952 they have fielded fifteen champion drivers, won sixteen Constructors' Championships, and accumulated more race victories, 1–2 finishes, podiums, pole positions, fastest laps and points than any other team in F1 history.[8][9]

Up to 1973, Ferrari was also highly active in sports car racing, where its cars won 7 of the first 9 world championships in the FIA world sporscar championship, then the most important series for endurance racing and on par as importance as formula one, and many more titles in the period from 1962 and 1967, when the series assigned multiple titles each year. In this category of motorsport, the 50s and 60s Ferrari cars dominated both the "prototype" classes and the GT ones, while the scuderia men had the unenviable task of preparing both official Scuderia's cars and customer's cars, aside form the formula one programme.

When the Scuderia retired from the endurance championship it had ammassed record after record in the series, taking overall victories and innumerable class ones in the most prestigious races of the time like the Mille Miglia, the Targa Florio, the Carrera Panamericana, the 1000km of the Nurburgring, the 24h of Spa and the 24 Hours of Le Mans.

Its record of 9 wins at Le Mans remained unbeaten till the mid 80's, more than 10 years after its retirement.

Moreover it did so in an historical period of the championship where the level of competition was always high, with brands such as Aston Martin, Jaguar, Ford, Maserati, Porsche and Shelby contending for the victories.

Another fundamental distinction, being that Ferrari, after the birth of the company, has always raced cars of their own manufacture compared to many of its competitors that designed and built only the chassis or the engine and fared with less success when they embarked on projects entirely of their own.

Scuderia Ferrari fans, commonly called tifosi, are known for their passion and loyalty to the team.

Early history

...... to follow

ciao 151.38.185.202 (talk) 16:46, 2 September 2023 (UTC)

Hi,

Thanks for your interest in this page! You have made good points about details that are lacking in the page text, particularly in regards to the sports car racing program. I also thank you for pointing out the error in which company initiated the Ford–Ferrari acquisition deal — I don't believe you are correct about it, because my sources say Ferrari approached Ford first, but I will investigate.

However, your text goes against Wikipedia's Manual of Style and as such it cannot be included in this state. Your additions are too long, you aren't citing any sources, and you are adding excessive detail. You're also using loaded, biased phrases: for example, calling Scuderia Ferrari a "living monument to racing," or saying that it "amassed record after record." Remember, Wikipedia is supposed to have a neutral point of view; your text reads more like an advertisement or eulogy than an encyclopedia article.

Once again, you are going into too much detail for this article, which is supposed to be more general. But you may be interested in contributing to History of Ferrari, which goes into lots of detail about Ferrari's sports car racing program and its place in the company's history. I have been working on that article piece by piece, and it's only about halfway done — I would appreciate some help! That article includes mamy of the things you have complained about, which I cannot fit on the main Ferrari article due to lack of space. There are also several more articles about Ferrari vehicles, employees, and racing events that are in need of contributors. These are better places for more detailed information.

Happy editing! Marisauna (talk) 16:20, 17 September 2023 (UTC)

Scuderia Ferrari references changed from plural to singular

Hello,

I just changed the construction of sentences referring to Scuderia Ferrari: they are now singular in construction ("Ferrari is") rather than plural ("Ferrari are"). I give a couple of reasons for making this change:

• Use of the singular for collective nouns is in fact standard British usage; see Comparison of American and British English#Subject-verb agreement. It isn't used all the time like in North America, but it is acceptable. Per MOS:COMMONALITY, it is preferable to use vocabulary and grammar shared between English varieties.
• Articles about British motorsport teams already use this construction. For a quick cross-section, see Team Lotus, McLaren, Tyrrell Racing, Brabham, and Aston Martin in Formula One.
• There may be situations where the entity being referred to is ambiguous or irrelevant. Referring to both entities in the singular makes it easier to write these sections.

The rendering of the team as plural was an idiosyncratic decision that I, an American, personally made. I do not think it reflects either correct British English usage or the best interests of this page. If anyone would like to make a counterpoint please feel free. Marisauna (talk) 16:20, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

Current models

Came here from seeing a beautiful car in the wild. The Monza sp2. It is listed as out of production as of 2023 but still listed as current in this article in contradiction to the article on the car. I am not familiar with the car industry nor car wiki but this seems contradictory to me. Either one is wrong or I'm missing an explanation in one (both?) Of the articles. 2A02:1406:45:93D8:1CE:9F43:9E29:8789 (talk) 22:02, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

Good call, you're correct that the Monza series has finished production and shouldn't be in the current models table. I just removed them both. TKOIII (talk) 19:28, 6 April 2024 (UTC)