Talk:Gin people

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History?

What is the political or social history of the Vietnamese native to China? Le Anh-Huy 17:49, 21 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

They occationally find those 5 islands in 15c. --虞海 (Yú Hǎi) (talk) 10:07, 23 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Romanization

Why are there two romanizations in Chinese? According to Unihan http://www.unicode.org/cgi-bin/GetUnihanData.pl?codepoint=4EAC there is only one pinyin version of this for this character.

Standard romanization of Non-Han Chinese people, place,... neednot to be pinyin, e.g. Harbin, Urumq, Va people.--刻意(Kèyì) 01:19, 29 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Move?

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved. Consensus was to move, but there was some concern about what name is the best. So if anyone wants to see if there is consensus on a different name, feel free to do so and propose or move the article based on that discussion. I also saw that Jing Nationality was suggested outside of this discussion. Vegaswikian (talk) 05:50, 3 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Gin Chinese → Gin people — Relisted. Ucucha 14:39, 21 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The official name of them is not based on Chinese language, but native language. Gin and Kinh are different transcription of Vietnamese language of their endonym, just as the majority of China call themself Han people. In Chinese document, Chinese language is called "Han Chinese language" as "official English" in ethnic introduction and Vietnamese language is treated as the abbr of "Gin Vietnamese language" or "Gin language in Vietnam", whereas "Gin language in China" or simply "Gin language" refer the language of resident of Fangchenggang. --虞海 (Yú Hǎi) (talk) 06:48, 13 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I don't like the current title because of the possible implication that the subjects are ethnic (Han) Chinese which they are not. I'm not crazy about the proposed title which, though fine on the merits, sounds like a race of alcoholics. Despite the term "Gin" being the official term[1] for the people, it is not necessary that Wikipedia use this especially since it is neither Mandarin Chinese (that would be Jing) or Vietnamese (Kinh) but a pinyin-based rendering of the Vietnamese term. Wikipedia uses non-official terms for other Chinese ethnic groups such as Uyghurs, Nakhis, and Monguors. If supported by sources, what about Ethnic Vietnamese in China or something along those lines like Koreans in China? — AjaxSmack 18:14, 13 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I kinda like the current title but as Ajaxsmack mentioned, Gin is neither the official mandarin or Vietnamese pronunciation. I suggest we move Gin Chinese → Jing Chinese or Kinh Chinese. Similar fashion to the likes of Hmong American.--LLTimes (talk) 15:58, 21 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- The problem with XXXX Chinese is that it implies that they are Han Chinese, i.e., ethnic Chinese, which they are not. — AjaxSmack 16:54, 22 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Weak support seems less bad than any of the alternatives. "ethnic Vietnamese in China" seems to conflate several topics (expats, etc.) into a single article, which doesn't necessarily seem like a good idea. (It would really depend whether & how reliable sources discuss Vietnamese expatriates in China). I'm not a big fan of either "Jing Chinese" or "Kinh Chinese", for the same reasons mentioned by AjaxSmack, and more simply because forming neologisms by analogy to American conventions is WP:OR. cab (talk) 04:25, 23 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Using the name "Gin Chinese" lead someone to a subgroup of Han ethnic, so I advise to move it to Gin people. Here's my points and replies/comments:

Gin is their native name, though it's not "Quốc Ngữ". I'd rather say it's Vietnamese government adopted the Alexander de Rhodes' "Quốc Ngữ" than say Gin people adopt a Chinese-pinyin based transcription. Currently, there're no consensus about writing system among Gin people available, so the respectable way to refer them is to use the official term transcripted from their native Gin language - at least it represent their self-identification in 1950s, when the ethnic-recognizer first met them. (Before 1950s, Chinese government call them Yue or Viet people; in 1950s, the government adopted their self-appellation "Gin" to make effort on equality among ethnics);
It is necessary to use the official term. Uyghurs is an article describe not only Uigurs in China but also Uyghurs in central Asia, so an alternative Uighur language transcription is accepted, yet Gin people refers only to native Kinh/Gin/Jing in China, excl. Kinh Vietnamese newly migrated to China - Kinh Vietnamese newly migrated to China are recognized as foreigners in China, not Gin people.

--虞海 (Yú Hǎi) (talk) 09:23, 23 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Good point from User:CaliforniaAliBaba about the issue of conflation with recent migrants. Since the context of the article is largely about the official minority, then I support the move for reasons I gave above. — AjaxSmack 10:23, 1 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

edit warring by ip

Do not delete cited information from the article. the source says the Gin language has no relations to vietnamese- "their linguistic origins are not Vietnamese because they speak a Yue* dialect, one related to those in Guangdong province."ΔΥΝΓΑΝΕ (talk) 01:16, 6 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I'm the one who has been removing your misinformation. 'Yue' translated to Vietnamese means 'Viet', you dumbass. The source that you pointed to is WRONG, dumbass. There have been several interviews and reports done in Vietnamese on these people. They speak Vietnamese. Their dresses are Vietnamese. The monocore musical instrument is Vietnamese called 'Dan Bau'. Several videos on youtube show them singing Vietnamese folk songs while wearing the head dress and 'ao dai'. You, sir, are a moron. http://tuoitre.vn/Chinh-tri-Xa-hoi/Phong-su-Ky-su/88681/Lang-que-Viet%C2%A0tren-dat-Trung-Hoa.html http://www.talawas.org/talaDB/showFile.php?res=6077&rb=0302 http://vietbao.vn/Phong-su/Tham-lang-Viet-co-500-nam-o-Trung-Quoc/20767257/262/ "They speak Vietnamese, mixed with Cantonese dialect, and some Mandarin" & "They are reported to speak a dialect of Yue, with no linguistic relation to Vietnamese" Do you know how contradictory that sounds when you, dumbass, added the second line? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.129.63.193 (talk) 22:47, 6 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Watch your language- WP:CIVIL, and Wikipedia:No personal attacks, and by the way, Yue in this context does not refer to Vietnamese, Yue refers to Yue Chinese (Cantonese), a dialect of which the Gin people speak. unlike Vietnamese, Chinese is written with characters, and has four tones "Yuè" (粵) refers to Cantonese, Yuè (越), means Viet.

The source says "one related to those in Guangdong province", clearly referring To cantonese AKA Yue chinese which is mostly spoke in Guangdong, Cantonese people are known as 廣東人 Guangdong people in chinese.ΔΥΝΓΑΝΕ (talk) 01:28, 7 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

71.129.63.193, don't call people morons or dumbasses, it's belligerent behaviour. Also, if you would like to contest content, please provide a peer-reviewed academic paper that has been published in a recognized journal; things such as linguistics are rather precise things, and we need to ensure that information is both reliable and verifiable. You have made various claims to justify removal without making proper citations to reliable sources. Please confirm that "Yue" in this case does not refer to 粵, but rather Viet. Journal papers would be preferable, if not solely the accepted form of source, for linguistics topics, as anyone can feign an expert in linguistics for the sake of nationalism, and write something up; journal papers are written by people with the relevant degrees, and are reviewed by others prior to acceptance to publishing. Keep in mind that anyone can hire a server and create a website, but only qualified people are able to have their studies published. -- 李博杰 | —Talk contribs email 02:22, 7 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Chinese-language Interwiki

Why is there no Interwiki for the Chinese-language article?? 76.189.141.37 (talk) 15:48, 6 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Because the Chinese article on the Gin links back to Vietnamese people in general because ethnicity and citizenship are strictly separated. Just like how Vietnam has its own ethnic minorities. Not every citizen of Vietnam is an "ethnic Vietnamese". --91.142.213.109 (talk) 17:12, 3 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"Vietnamesee language in China" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Vietnamesee language in China and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 July 9#Vietnamesee language in China until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. _signed,Rosguill ^talk 15:45, 9 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

"Vietnamese in China" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Vietnamese in China and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 July 9#Vietnamese in China until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. _signed,Rosguill ^talk 15:45, 9 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]