Talk:Psychobabble (jargon)

name change

I just changed the name from Psycho-babble to Psychobabble (jargon) for 2 reasons: (1) to disambiguate it from the new article about the Psycho-Babble web site and (2) while we're at it, let's correct the spelling to WITHOUT a hyphen. (See all the dictionary references below on this talk page.)Nadirsofar 17:51, 6 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I've updated the articles that link here and I fixed a double-redirect. This issue (about the spelling without a hyphen) has been discussed before and this is the time to fix it.Nadirsofar 17:51, 6 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

This article as well as LGAT strongly needs NPOVing. I'm no native speaker and I consider this as jargon, so it's too hard for me to work on it myself. -- JeLuF

Indeed, for example: "Users of psychological jargon may argue that cynics have invented the term as a defence against the cynics' own deep, repressed fears and traumas." --PolyGnome 09:51, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)

reverting & changes

definition

The anonymous 12-Jan-2005 edit changed psychobabble from a derogatory term for jargon to a derogatory term for the entire field of psychology. There is no support for that definition. These dictionaries all define psychobabble as jargon only and NOT as the field:

Oxford English Dictionary, 2nd ed (1989)
Dictionary of Psychology (A. Colman, editor; Oxford, 2001)
New Oxford American Dictionary (2001)
American Heritage Dictionary, 3rd ed (1996)
Merriam-Webster Collegiate, 11th ed (2003)
Random House Unabridged Dictionary, 2nd ed (1993)
Stedman's Online Medical Dictionary
Princeton University's WordNet (online) -nadirsofar 25 June 2005

coinage

In a bit of searching, I still find no corroboration for the Walt Richmond attribution. Oxford's psych dictionary credits Rosen and dates it to 1977. RH says it was popularized by Rosen's 1977 book but doesn't credit him with coinage. MWC dates it to 1975. No reference was given for the "dates from the 1960s" line. I say that the 1961 Richmond credit should be considered original research for now and deleted. "Popularized by Rosen's book" seems indisputable, even if a Richmond source is found later.

(Anyway the "era of origin for widespread" psychoanalysis was, like, the 1920s-50s; by the 1960s it had peaked; group counseling wasn't "spreading wide" until the 1970s.) -nadirsofar 25 June 2005

spelling

All the above dictionaries spell it WITHOUT the hyphen. I don't know what the guidelines are for changing the title, but I think it should be done. (Um, how do you change the title?) -nadirsofar 25 June 2005

Six months is enough warning. This article was originally, correctly, without a hyphen. I don't know why the 2003 edit was made to hyphenate it, but whoever did it can't overrule the OED, M-W, RH, etc etc. So it's fixed. I also corrected the spelling in the articles that link here when I updated those links.Nadirsofar 18:14, 6 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

NOPV

The dictionaries all specify or imply it's the use of the jargon that makes it psychobabble, not something inherent in the terms. Some rewording needed to reflect that. Also, all the unreferenced stuff about unnamed critics (of what, exactly?) and their unspecified opinions should be deleted. No one doubts that jargon can be employed in an empty or ignorant way. If there is published controversy about the term, quote it! -nadirsofar 25 June 2005

List of Terms

The list of terms goes way beyond Psychobabble to include some politcally correct and business jargon words and needs a good clean up. Lumos3 11:34, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I would submit as more-or-less normal terms (not extremely psychobabble) or pretty uncommon: change, communication, enrollment (?), expressing feelings, leadership, racket, spaced-out, stuff... But I'm open to a grounded, win-win visioning here. User:duldan 23 Jun 2005

I have removed the following which are either management Buzzwords or just inexplicable. I have also started to add some explanation and uses to the terms left in the list.

access to, alignment, acknowledgement, change, communication, conversation, creativity, enrollment, expressing feelings, integrity, leadership, in one's life, meaning, openness, having passion, on the planet, possibility, projects, quality, racket, really / reality, responsibility, spirituality, taking a stand, team spirit, it (just) works .

If anyone can show how they are used as Psychobabble please put them back. Lumos3 15:48, 7 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Clarification

The article uses the word 'grandiloquent', which I (as a native English speaker) have never heard, and I think needs re-wording. I'm not however sure what would be a good replacement/fix here. Ideas anyone? -- Palfrey 14:26, 27 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Any support for 'psycho-babble == field'?

So far not one piece of evidence or one voice of support has been raised here to support the idea that "psycho-babble" is used to disparage the whole field. If no further support is voiced by October 15, 2005, let's eliminate that usage as unverified. At the most, it deserves a mention as a usage of the term -- not leading mention as the usage of the term, as is the case now. -- Antaeus Feldspar 17:57, 8 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I've done this. The article's still going to need more work; someone seems to have used it to slide past the "Wikipedia is not a soapbox" rule: "Aha! I think that the whole field of psychology is a bunch of claptrap and I use the term 'psychobabble' to express my contempt! If I say I'm just explaining what people who use the word 'psychobabble' mean when they use it, I can express at length my own disdain!" -- Antaeus Feldspar 19:00, 16 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Disputed -- origin of term

The following was inserted directly in the article by 160.79.218.85 (talk · contribs) in this edit:

NO. I COINED THE TERM IN 1975 WHEN WRITING A BOOK REVIEW FOR THE BOSTON PHOENIX OF RUSSELL JACOBY'S BOOK, SOCIAL AMNESIA, IN APRIL 1975. YOU WILL FIND NO EARLIER USE OF WORD, BECAUSE I HADN'T INVENTED IT YET! IN OCTOBER OF 1975, I WROTE COVER STORY "PSYCHOBABBLE" FOR NEW TIMES MAG, THEN PUBLISHED BOOK BY THAT NAME IN 1977 (ATHENEUM). YOU WILL FIND ME PROPERLY CREDITED IN WILLIAM SAFIRE COLUMN, TIME MAGAZINE, AND NUMEROUS DICTIONARIES. FALSE INFORMATION BELOW IS BIZARRELY IMAGINATIVE! MY E-MAIL IS RICHARDR@WORKMAN.COM. THANKS.

There seems to have been a 1977 book written by a Richard Dean Rosen titled Psychobabble; I can't determine whether it was Atheneum that published it. -- Antaeus Feldspar 19:12, 16 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Psychobabble v Psychobabble (jargon)

Why has this page been moved from Psychobabble to Psycho-babble (jargon)? The rule should be to keep article headings simple. There is no need to add parenthesis unless it is likely to be confused with another word. The article itself should explain that the word is a kind of jargon. It is adding unnecessary complexity. I think it should be moved back Lumos3 17:46, 6 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I agree; the page currently at Psychobabble (jargon) is clearly the most widespread use of the word. It should be what people get when they link the term "psychobabble". -- Antaeus Feldspar 22:54, 18 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]