Talk:Phencyclidine

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First synthesized

This ref[1] says 1926...

This is not the best source[2] Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 05:09, 30 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The best source would the original journal article in German that I cited.^[1] I, however, don't want to spend the money to get the full copy to fully review it. I might be able to get it through my library. Do you have access by any chance? MartinezMD (talk) 14:30, 30 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

User:MartinezMD I have sent it to you. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 06:20, 31 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Other refs also support the 1926 such as[3][4] etc Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 06:24, 31 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Kötz, A.; Merkel, Paul (1926). "Zur Kenntnis hydroaromatischer Alkamine". Journal für Praktische Chemie (in ger). 113 (1). Wiley: 49–76. doi:10.1002/prac.19261130107. ISSN 0021-8383.{{cite journal}}: CS1 maint: unrecognized language (link)

Per WP policies, a secondary source is better than the primary, and both the proceedings source and the Barceloux volume (p. 608) are fine to say when it was first prepared. [Refs. 1-3 cited by Barceloux on p. 627 may be worth pulling. Doc, the first is Anesth Analg (1958) 37:283-294.] See also this more recent review, and this one, which have selected from among the early citations (so presumably read them). And see section 7.5, here.

If you want to say how the compound was first made, any chemistry editor with access to ACS tools can pull up the full citation history for the J Prakt Chemie, tracing that 1926 article forward to all that have cited it (and cited those who have cited it), to find a secondary source. If you want a read of the German, there are two issues, the language, but also the fact that structural representations in use then were very different than now, and often contained errors (as this was long before NMR and mass spec methods, so most structural eludication was done chemically and inferentially). If the only way to get at the answer is to have the German read, I can do that same day, if screenshots can be posted to the Commons or someplace here. Just state the question, and link to the images here, and I will take a look.

Finally, please, please, please, do not begin using erowid as a source. We settled the fact that is is not a reliable source for chemistry, here, over a decade ago, and much time was spent removing those unreliable citations from the encyclopedia. Wiedersehen. 2601:246:C700:19D:6DB8:E3D9:8FD6:A7B0 (talk) 22:06, 31 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It's only one editor who keeps contesting the dates/information. I've messaged him to join us here. I got the article from Doc James (thank you). I do not see a modern structure of PCP, but I agree much of this was likely done by inference and crystal temperatures (as I don't think crystallography would have helped). The language is less of an issue. Chrome and Word can translate most of it and much of the rest can be understood by context. So I can't tell yet what they got. If they really did not make PCP, then the secondary sources are simply wrong. It would not be the first time a mistake is made and it gets carried over forever more. A chemist's help, especially one that spoke German, would be ideal. Do we know any on WP? There likely are some. MartinezMD (talk) 04:06, 1 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Grade 12?

What does "people in grade 12" mean? Is it in some sort of grading system or classification that we should link to? - Tournesol (talk) 08:43, 2 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Tournesol: It's a grade-level/year in school. I added a link. DMacks (talk) 14:10, 2 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Violent behavior

The assumption that PCP causes violent behavior was never accepted scientifically as truth, and evidence against this claim being published isn't something new.

In the first paragraph, it is said that "PCP may cause hallucinations, distorted perceptions of sounds, and violent behavior". This is contested by references that are already on this page, for example, the 26th reference, which is a review. "These findings plus the pre-1970 prospective evaluation of thousands of patients with PCP, in which violence was never reported, led us to conclude that clinical and forensic assumptions about PCP and violence are not warranted."

Most, if not all, claims that "PCP induces " or that "PCP induced violent behavior" have one or more of the following features:

Are published in the USA

The reviews of ED visits, that attributes PCP to be a cause of this type of behavior, are done in the USA, are most of the time reporting a patient that consumed a considerable amount of other drugs, does not provide any statistical data about how many of those cases actually involved aggressiveness and does not develop a proper statistical analysis of the cases to support the claim

Was used by a lawyer as a defense to a criminal act

PCP was claimed to be present and a cause, but not necessarily confirmed

The individual clearly had tendencies to elicit aggressive behavior, or has already participated in previous violent crimes or acts where PCP was not consumed

Was used by officers as an excuse to either not being able to capture a criminal (and also relying on the "superhuman" strength myth) or to justify the excessive use of force (the same problem with the controversial "excited delirium") ILoveKyoko (talk) 23:14, 23 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Remove category Opioid?

"Studies on rats indicate that PCP interacts indirectly with opioid receptors" ← does not make it an opioid, does it? Karl Svartholm (talk) 08:28, 21 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Aus & NZ

If someone has time they could add aus and nz back in with the correct laws and citations. Or add a table showing legal status in various countries. 163.47.186.123 (talk) 03:25, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[1] Kötz, A.; Merkel, Paul (1926). "Zur Kenntnis hydroaromatischer Alkamine". Journal für Praktische Chemie (in ger). 113 (1). Wiley: 49–76. doi:10.1002/prac.19261130107. ISSN 0021-8383.{{cite journal}}: CS1 maint: unrecognized language (link)

[1]