Talk:Punt (gridiron football)

Cleanup

Punt is used in Rules as well, but not with the same meaning.

Better to add a para to this article?

Or rename it and leave the Aussie Rules punt for some other place?

Tannin 00:20 Feb 23, 2003 (UTC)

Break up this article

I may sound like a nitpicker, but the paragraphs in this article are too long, and I think they need to be broken up.

How about separate sections for punting rules in American football and Canadian football?

[[206.72.11.195 6 July 2005 22:46 (UTC)]]

198 eh?

Someone mentions a 198 yard punt. Somehow I don't think that's even remotely possible. You'd have to kick the ball clean out of the stadium. And even if you did, yardage from punts is measured from the line of scrimmage to where the ball is downed. The longest punt possible is the length of the ball from one's own end zone to the length of the ball from the opposing end zone (so it does not break either plane.) In other words, just over 99.5 yards.

I checked, and the record is 98... might have just been a typo or someone being silly, either way, it's corrected now 132.42.128.28 11:34, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Moving picture?

This page is a prime candidate for a .gif image showing a punter in motion. bd2412 T 03:11, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Contradiction

The following seems self-contradictory:

A player from the receiving team must be the first player to touch the ball after it has been kicked in American football; if the kicking team touches it first it is dead at the point that they touch it and the receiving team receives possession there. The only exception to this is that if the ball continues on into the end zone after the kicking team touches it then a touchback is called, and the receiving team gains possession at its own 20-yard line rather than at the point the ball was touched by the kicking team.

If the ball is dead as soon as it is touched, the play is immediately over, so if the ball then rolls into the endzone (between plays), how can that affect anything? Something's wrong here, but I don't know American rules well enough to make the correction myself. Indefatigable 18:34, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Yes, something is wrong here and in the "Rules" section also. It is quite common for the kicking team in American football to "down" a punt that the receiving team has allowed to drop to ground without attempting to field it and the play is simply ruled dead where it is touched by the kicking team. I used to ref HS football but it has been over 10 years and I can't remember all the details. I think maybe illegal or first touching may pertain to touching before the receiving team has had a chance to field the ball, if the ball is allowed to drop to the ground this wouldn't pertain. But certainly, if the ball is touched and then goes into the endzone, it is not a touchback, but is dead at the spot of touching. Wschart (talk) 19:25, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

No, the rules section is correct. The quote from above was removed long ago. Also you are very confused. First off, you seem to be confusing kick catching interference with illegal/first touching. Secondly, your description of KCI is a not exactly right on anyways. No, the ball is not dead when K touches it. That is called first touching or illegal touching depending on the rule set being used. R has the option of taking the ball at the spot of the touching or taking the result of the down, things get sort of tricky when there are fouls during the play, but there is no need to get into that.--Smokedadro (talk) 23:49, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Breaking Sections

May I suggest breaking the rules section into two separate section, having one cover American football rules, and the other cover Canadian football. As it stands now, it is very hard to follow. Ramsquire ^{(throw me a line)} 00:22, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

illegal touching

if the kicking team touches it first it is called illegal touching (first touching under NFHS), and the receiving team may choose to take possession at the spot of illegal touching touching or elect to have the result of the down.

The NFL.com rule digest says "12. Any member of the punting team may down the ball anywhere in the field of play. However, it is illegal touching (Official’s time out and receiver’s ball at spot of illegal touching). This foul does not offset any foul by receivers during the down."

This doesn't imply any choice for the receiving team. While I don't have a copy of the rulebook, so it may say something different, it does answer my question when reading this article of "how do they have the choice if they never get the ball to complete the play?". Can someone clarify? TheHYPO 22:43, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

I would also like to suggest splitting the Rules section between Canadian and American, and just explaining one while explaining differences in the other afterwards. I'd do so myself, but I'm not familiar with CDN Football rules (despite being Canadian, ironically). TheHYPO 03:47, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

With regards to illegal touching - if the ball is down once a player from the kicking team touches it, then why does it matter whether they catch the ball outside of the end zone or not? This supposed rule doesn't explain why a kicking team player will catch and pass the ball in midair just before the goal line, passing it to a teamate that is outside of the endzone, to down the ball. Peoplesunionpro (talk) 21:18, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

Touchbacks and Safeties

I can't tell from the rules section in this article whether if a receiving player fields the ball and is tackled in his own endzone, it counts as a touchback or a safety. Can someone who knows the rules better than me clarify that? Reyemile (talk) 20:35, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Merge Drop punt and Torpedo punt into this article

Drop punt and Torpedo punt into this article Punt (football) as they seem to describe different ways to kick the ball, and are not different tactics. If they are merged in to sections of the same name then redirects can be linked into those sections. --PBS (talk) 23:57, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

Distinction from drop kick doesn't always apply

"A punt is in contrast to a drop kick, in which the ball touches the ground before being kicked." I don't follow sport[s] much at all, but surely this doesn't apply to American football. Kicking an American football on the bounce would be quite a feat of agility. Perhaps add "Except in American football [and rugby?]" to the front of the statement. Or qualify it by listing the sports where on-the-bounce drop kicks do happen. Jdrum00 (talk) 12:57, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

• There is a distinction between a punt kick and a drop kick in the gridiron codes. This is detailed on the drop kick page.Aspirex (talk) 10:49, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

Proposed mergers

Re: the banner on the article page proposing a merger with punt kick. I oppose this proposed merger: what I would suggest is that this article be moved to Punt (gridiron football), and that drop punt, torpedo punt, checkside punt, etc. all be merged into punt kick. Fundamentally, the punt in the context of the gridiron football codes is a discussion about the specific details about the special teams play; but, all of the other articles are about the skill, execution and physics of different punt kicks, which should be presented in a sport-neutral format. These articles should meet distinct aims, and should therefore be separate. Aspirex (talk) 10:55, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

I could go with that. The rugby union section should be moved to punt kick and this renamed to exclusively focus Gridiron. Maybe a very trimmed down version could be written in punt kick with a {{main}} pointing here. AIRcorn (talk) 07:00, 4 July 2012 (UTC)

Lead is rather technical...

I understand that the article is directed to people possessing at least a passing familiarity with the sport, but perhaps the introduction could be a bit clearer for people who simply heard about "punting" somewhere and just want to know what that is—it took me a while to grasp the basic fact that it's a kick, and others might not get it at all. Waltham, The Duke of 09:26, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for pointing this out. I have added a basic explanation to the first sentence. I have been making minor tweaks to this article for years, but I need to remind myself to once in while read articles as if seeing them for the first time with no knowledge of the subject. Indefatigable (talk) 17:17, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

I sympathise; deep knowledge of a subject is practically impossible to ignore, and seeing it with a layman's eyes once again is easier said than done. As in this case, it generally takes an outsider, and I appreciate your rapid response to my suggestion. The introductory sentence is now wonderfully clear to people like me. Waltham, The Duke of 12:12, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Reception (American football) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 07:59, 9 July 2015 (UTC)

Drop kick or not?

The description begins with this sentence:

"A punt in gridiron football is a drop kick performed by dropping the ball from the hands and then kicking the ball before it hits the ground."

But, the article on "drop kick" requires the ball to contact the ground before the kick, while the quoted sentence says, for a punt, the ball is kicked before it hits the ground." So, which is correct? Is a punt a drop kick or not? SlowJog (talk) 19:42, 9 September 2018 (UTC)

Despite the fact that a punt involves dropping and kicking, it is not a drop kick. Back when drop kicks were a common part of the game, this would have been clear to everyone, but the rarity of drop kicks now obviously has some editors confused. Indefatigable (talk) 13:21, 11 September 2018 (UTC)