Talk:Leopold Stokowski

Bio question

Stokowski was born in England, his father Polish, his mother British. Naturalized American in 1915. Also known for his colourful orchestrations of several Bach organ works (the best-known of which is probably the Toccata and Fugue in D minor). His orchestration of Mussorgsky's 'Pictures at an Exhibition'- best known in the Ravel orchestration - sometimes gets an airing and he also compiled a Symphonic Synthesis on Wagner's 'Tristan and Isolde'.

So why is there nothing on the page about his huge amount of transcriptions? His accompliments in them are surely worthjy of inclusion, as they are still today reguarded highly as being some of the best (Pictures not withstanding...) Melodia Chaconne 11:36, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

Although I am possibly non-current on my information about Stokowski's transcriptions, I believe that there is a controversy about how much he is responsible for them during the Philadelphia years and how much Lucien Caillet is. The present article is overly simplistic in its presentation, limiting the controversy to the sole case of Pictures At An Exhibition and stating baldly that the work IS by Caillet. My sources indicate that Caillet later claimed credit for ALL the Stokowski transcriptions of the Philadelphia era and later produced his own transcription of Pictures for Eugene Ormandy, an orchestration which is inferior, according to many critics, to the earlier "Mussorgsky-Stokowski" version. Caillet was given credit during the Stokowski era as the orchestral arranger for the Philadelphia. Stokowski continued to produce transcriptions well past the Philadelphia days and used other orchestral arrangers as collaborators. His method appears to have been to give a detailed markup of a piece to the arranger, who would then realize a complete score based on Stokowski's markup. Caillet believed his contribution was much more substantial than simply realizing Stokowski's wishes. While this may indeed be true in some senses, the later Stokowski transcriptions form a cohesive oeuvre together with the Philadelphia ones, and Caillet's later arrangements, both for Ormandy and for his own work in motion pictures, have an orchestral sound and texture much different from the disputed Stokowski arrangements. I believe that the article should be revised to include an account of the controversy along these lines, utilizing the latest research. Gregoriusu 10:19, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Evangeline Johnson-Stokowskis time in New York 1932

Salzburg, 01. 11. 2003

Research Erika Giovanna Klien and Evangeline Stokowski

For a long while I am searching private dates of Evangeline Johnson Stokowski. Speacially I would like to know exactly dates of the time, when Evangeline had an apartment in New York. She was in contact with an Austrian artist, Erika Giovanna Klien (1900 - 1957), who lived at this time in New York. It would be very interesting for me, if someone could answer my questions. Who knows persons alive, who can tell me more about this time (1932) and the circle of artists, who know very well the family-history of Leopold Stokowski and Evangeline Johnson. I am also searching Oliver Daniel, the author of "A counterpoint of view" , published 1982, Dodd Mead Company, New York ISBN 0-396-07936-9.

The person who can help me, please write (if possible in german?) to: johanna.puehringer@aon.at

Best greetings

Johanna Pühringer

Year of Birth

Hi, his year of birth is discussed already in the article in "Early Life". The online sources I find all cite 1882.

Night on Bald Mountain

Since there are literally millions of copies of the DVD and VHS versions of Disney's first Fantasia in circulation, circa September, 2014, it makes no sense to call for a citation of the segue from Mussorgsky's work into the Ave Maria. There are probably too many calls for citations needed in the article as a whole - but in inappropriate places. There certainly is a need for a few more citations overall here.Sidney Orr (talk) 02:09, 13 September 2014 (UTC)

As I recall, Mussorgsky "didn't finish" this one something like four times, and they're all pretty different from one another. So it's not really good enough to say that Stoky didn't use the Rimsky-Korsakov version in favor of his own, because he may well have been working from one of the other abortive versions. Same with Pictures (which I'm pretty sure Cailliet did for him): he/they worked from a better, more reliable MS than did Ravel but a lot of people get mad at Stoky for "ignoring" Mussorgsky's instructions when it's really Ravel (though inadvertently) who did so. Wspencer11 17:43, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Out the supposedly four versions by Mussurgsky the first one (for piano and orchestra) was already lost when Rimsky-Korsakov orchestrated it. The third and fourth are the same (for choir and orchestra), differ only in lyrics. RK based his on the fourth, and so did Stokowski. The second version is quite different and with a totally different form. AdamChapman 11:01, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

To clarify the Pictures / Cailliet situation, Ormandy would not have allowed Cailliet to work on Stokowski's version because he (Ormandy) had already commissioned a Cailliet version of Pictures for himself in 1936. This was because the Ravel orchestration, at that time, was still very much associated with Koussevitzky: he had commissioned it, premiered it, published it, and had made its first recording with the Boston Symphony. Koussevitzky held sole conducting rights for several years but when he did allow other conductors to take it on, his hire fees were exorbitant. For these reasons, when Ormandy took over the Philadelphia Orchestra from Stokowski, first as associate in 1936 and then full music director two years later, he decided on a Pictures arrangement of his own. This was duly provided by Cailliet and given its premiere by Ormandy and the Philadelphia Orchestra on 5 February 1937. The same forces recorded it for RCA on 78s later that same year.

Ormandy also asked Cailliet to make many other transcriptions of works by Bach, Debussy, Rachmaninov, Purcell and so on. These he premiered and many of which he recorded. Meanwhile, Stokowski's association with the Philadelphia Orchestra was drastically reduced whilst he worked out his contract, with Ormandy taking over the bulk of the conducting each season. So by 1938, Cailliet had ceased to be Stokowski's copyist and was working solely for Ormandy instead. (See also Oliver Daniel's 1982 Stokowski biography, page 443: "Long after 1938, when his association with Cailliet had ended, Stoki continued to produce transcriptions.")

Although the Ravel and Cailliet versions of Pictures were current in the 1930s (both commissioned by two rival conductors) Stokowski decided to enter the fray and make a version of his own which owed nothing to the previous orchestrations. He aimed to be less "Gallic" than Ravel and more "Slavic" than Cailliet and came up with a new transcription which he premiered with the Philadelphia Orchestra on 17 November 1939, during his last weeks there. Stokowski then recorded it a few days later and as will be heard when comparing his version to the Cailliet, there are few, if any, stylistic or instrumental resemblances between the two. (Recordings: Cailliet on Biddulph WHL 046; Stokowski on Dutton Laboratories CDAX 8009).Philipson55 (talk) 12:19, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

Stokes

Oscar Levant, The Unimportance of Being Oscar, Pocket Books 1969 (reprint of G.P. Putnam 1968), p. 110 (ISBN 0-671-77104-3) reports (second-hand, as an anecdote) that when he worked as an organist in NYC he went by the name Leo Stokes, and that he only took the name Stokowski because he knew that Mrs. Taft would prefer a more "European" conductor. I tend to trust Levant on things he says from personal knowledge, but in this case it's just "I met a concert manager who told me an interesting story", so I'm not sure if we should credit it any more than if a concert manager told us an interesting story. Still, someone might want to look for documentary evidence that he worked under the name Leo Stokes. - Jmabel | Talk 21:19, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Documentary evidence that Stokowski ever "worked under the name Leo Stokes" will be impossible to come by for the very simple reason that none exists! The "Stokes" canard first materialised in the early 1930s, presumably put about by detractors jealous of his world-wide success. The ludicrous Levant story referred to above is totally disproved and discredited in Dr. Rollin Smith's "Stokowski and the Organ" (Pendragon Press, Hillsdale, New York: 270 pages, published 2004). Thoroughly researched in "The Complete Organ" Series, it goes into lavish detail about Stokowski's time at St. Bartholomew's in New York City to the extent of reproducing many of the original programmes of Stokowski's organ recitals at the church. These commenced on Sunday, November 19th, 1905, when at 5:15 pm Leopold Stokowski played music by Meyerbeer, Saint-Saens and Wagner. The only concession to a name change was the replacing of the "w" in Stokowski with a "v" so that people would pronounce it correctly. This didn't last long and he soon reverted to the correct spelling of his family name (ie: that which can be seen on his Birth Certificate, readily available to any researcher from the Family Records Centre in London). It is to be hoped that not only Dr. Smith's book, but also the 1000-page Oliver Daniel biography "Stokowski: A Counterpoint of View" (Dodd Mead & Company, New York: published 1982), which goes into Stokowski's early family history, will lay the "Stokes" legend to rest once and for all. - Philipson55 14:27, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

"Popular culture"

popular culture section is just another phrase for trivia, as evidenced by the simple interchangeable name. it is unencyclopaedic, and as described in the tag, should integrated into the article or removed. --emerson7 | Talk 23:43, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

I agree; "In popular culture" is just a commonly-used disguise around here (in Wikipedia in general) for the piling-on of trivia. +ILike2BeAnonymous 00:48, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

This is the guy Bugs Bunny was portraying on that one Looney Tunes episode, right? Jared (t)  19:03, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Yep, he's the one. --Wspencer11 (talk to me...) 14:41, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Affair with Greta Garbo

An affair with Greta Garbo?? Could someone please cite a source? BartBassist (talk) 23:09, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

See Oliver Daniel's 1000-page biography "Stokowski - A Counterpoint of View" (1982), Chapter 38, entitled 'Garbo'. Stokowski met her in Hollywood in 1937 while filming '100 Men and a Girl' with Deanna Durbin. They had a whirlwind romance which took them to Ravello, a town in Italy. There, fixed to the wall of the Villa Cimbrone, a plaque with an inscription in Italian states: "Here in the spring of 1938 the divine Great Garbo escaped the clamour of Hollywood, spending with Leopold Stokowski hours of secret happiness." It was less secret than the plaque makes out as their lives were made a misery by the paparazzi and the romance soon came to an end. Philipson55 (talk) 18:05, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Sumptuous

Google defines it as: Splendid and expensive-looking. Merriam-Webster defines it as: extremely costly, rich, luxurious, or magnificent. Not really sure that's the best adjective to describe sound. If someone wants to justify its use, I'll leave it be. Otherwise, it should get changed. Daniel J Simanek (talk) 08:20, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

I certainly agree. There are many far better adjectives, e.g., "sensual" or "lush." Autodidact1 (talk) 09:52, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

Oh, I don't know. "Sensual" has a rather different connotation, which I don't think fits the Stokowski sound. "Lush" certainly would. Still, "sumptuous" in the sense of "rich" and/or "luxuriant" is certainly appropriate, and I've seen the word used in reviews to describe orchestral and even vocal sound. 71.183.8.117 (talk) 12:12, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

Religious affiliation

Regarding Stokowski's early life, nothing mentioned here about Christian baptism, godparents, first communion, etc. This raises the question if perhaps, his parents had a dispute about early religious education that never got resolved. Nevertheless, he must have been a competent musician and composer but I wonder if he was undecided of apprehensive about joining a specific denomination. If you view the image of Stokowski's headstone in London, there is no cross inscribed on it. Musicwriter (talk) 01:22, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

[T]otally [sic] advanced old age

"However, despite living into totally [sic] advanced old age, he died of a heart attack the following year in Nether Wallop, Hampshire, at 95." What, pray tell, is "totally advanced old age"? Autodidact1 (talk) 10:00, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

rhetorical question

Why is there a photograph of Edward Elgar on Leopold Stokowski's article page? Maineartists (talk) 00:31, 6 December 2016 (UTC)

Presumably because of the American premiere of Elgar's Second Symphony. Still, I agree that it's confusing.71.183.8.117 (talk) 12:13, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

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-- Marchjuly (talk) 02:09, 30 August 2019 (UTC)

Birth name

For what it's worth: the Collins Encyclopedia of Music, edition 1976, states his birth name as Leopold Anton Stanislaw Stokowski, son of a Polish father and a British mother. Mention is also made of his habit of speaking with a fake Slavic accent, trying to present himself as a Polish or at least Middle-European conductor, which of course he wasn't. Maybe he thought he could fool the Americans into confusing a British conductor with a Slavic conductor: for them it's all Europe. Who knows. (This is not meant to imply that he wasn't sincere in other matters.) --Hansung02 (talk) 21:49, 7 October 2021 (UTC)