Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Cacotopia

From VfD:

Delete. Dictdef. KeyStroke
Keep. We have articles on Dystopia, and I think the article on Cacotopia could be expanded. Darksun 13:57, 9 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Keep: Seems legitimate and encyclopedic to me. Not sure what Jary is doing in there, but that's ok. (Father Ubu becomes King of Poland.) Geogre 13:58, 9 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Encyclopedic and an interesting anecdote, but I'd rather merge it with Jeremy Bentham than give it its own article. I wouldn't mind a redirect from cacotopia to Jeremy Bentham, though. --Ardonik.talk() 18:49, Sep 9, 2004 (UTC)
Keep. Wile E. Heresiarch 03:03, 10 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Keep, goes with the other 'topia articles, term invented and sanctioned by Bentham. Jarry is in there for two reasons, 1) the subject of the novel is a cacotopia, 2) the resonance between Turd (Ubu) and caco-. What are the objections to this article? I don't see any given here other than the innacurate characterization as a "definition" (to my mind a low-value objection, as thousands of articles define what they are about, jazz, telescope, rhinoceros.) Its only sin is shortness, but it could certainly be expanded with historical and contemporary examples, Uganda under Idi Amin, Belgian Congo under Leopold. Ortolan88 03:33, 10 Sep 2004 (UTC) (original author, I think)

I don't think anyone has objections. No one has voted delete. As for the caco- root, there is also the infamous Kalicax or Kalikax family used in pseudo biology at the turn of the 20th century, where an eugenicist found a family in southern New Jersey that was "beautifully bad" and "proved" that their bad blood made for bad children, etc. Just seems more natural than Jary is all (similarity of "Ubu," and the first word of the play, "Merdes!" is cool, but I didn't think Ubu's reign was a cacotopia, but I may be reading it only as a reflection of a schoolhouse). Geogre 04:35, 10 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Well, as I understand it, Ubu is French nursery talk for merde, analagous to the English poo-poo, hence the translation of Ubu Roi as King Turd. Jarry said his King was based on Adolph Thiers, notorious French reactionary. (I haven't read it in a long time, btw.) Another use of caco- is found in the ship captured by Francis Drake, the Cacafuego, always euphemistically translated as Spitfire, but meaning Shitfire. I don't think the Kallikak business would add much here, or the Cacafuego for that matter. Bentham and Mill are enough. Ortolan88 04:58, 10 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I think it would be fine to keep it, though I would not mind if it were moved to Wictionary.
Keep. Decent stub. — Gwalla | Talk 22:06, 11 Sep 2004 (UTC)

end moved discussion