Talk:Book of Baruch

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[Untitled]

If Baruch is not in the Tanakh, it is odd to read in this entry that "Baruch is found among the prophetical books which include Isaiah, Jeremiah, Lamentations, (Baruch), Ezekiel, Daniel, and the twelve minor prophets." "Found?" Found by Catholics one supposes.... Wetman 02:24, 14 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Found by anyone who looks in the Vulgate, the Septuagint, or one of their daughter versions. Perhaps the article should make that clear. Rwflammang 13:27, 6 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I've reworked the lead, and this (hopefully) will address these concerns. It is now clear to anyone who reads the first paragraph that the book is canonical for some Christian groups, and not canonical for Jews and some other Christian groups. Alephb (talk) 01:31, 8 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Merge

I oppose the merge. Although in modern bibles the Epistle of Jeremy is effectively part of Baruch, in old manuscripts it was not always so. The two works have separate histories. Rwflammang 13:27, 6 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Something Wrong

I think its not right to use a picture of a Torah scroll in context with the words Old Testament here. Thats not NPOV I think. If I should say this somewhere else, can someone point me to the right place? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.153.4.250 (talk) 03:23, 27 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that the sidebar on the right is misleading. Because no one has disagreed with you in the last eight years about this, I'm going to delete the right sidebar. If someone restores it, I won't argue with them.Alephb (talk) 01:33, 8 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Update: Well, it got restored. No argument here. Alephb (talk) 02:14, 8 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

External links

Are all those external links within the text OK? I thought external links should only be in the External Links section.--Mycomp (talk) 23:19, 8 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Cats

Apparently Baruch 6:21 contains the only biblical mention of cats. Notable or trivia? --Rumping (talk) 09:01, 13 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Language

In what language did the composition originate? (Google Translate claims that the Hebrew Wikipedia claims that "researchers are convinced that the book was originally written in Hebrew," but provides no sources.)
In what language is the oldest surviving fragments of the composition?

allixpeeke (talk) 10:55, 27 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Your concerns are now partially addressed in the lead. Alephb (talk) 18:04, 27 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

PS. Just something to keep in mind, looking forward, if you pull Wikipedia articles off Hebrew or European languages. The US, Europe, and Israel have (to some extent) gone in three different directions when it comes to hypotheses about the back-stories of ancient texts. I couldn't tell you much about European or Israeli positions in detail, but for obvious reasons the English Wikipedia is going to lean in the direction of publications in English. Alephb (talk) 04:08, 28 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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canonicty

Most of the section on canonicity looks to be tendentious and question-begging.

"Athanasius (367 AD),^[1] Cyril of Jerusalem (c. 350 AD),^[2] Epiphanius of Salamis (c. 385 AD)^[3] and Pope Innocent I (405 AD)^[4] listed the Book of Baruch as canonical.

The Synod of Laodicea (in 364) declared Baruch canonical.^[5] The same happened with the Synod of Hippo (in 393),^[6] followed by the Council of Carthage (397) and the Council of Carthage (419).^[7] Later, Augustine of Hippo (C. 397 AD) would confirm in his book On Christian Doctrine (Book II, Chapter 8) the canonicity of the book of Baruch.^[8]

The Decretum Gelasianum which is a work written by an anonymous scholar between 519 and 553 contains a list of books of Scripture presented as having been declared canonical by the Council of Rome (382 AD). This list mentions the book of Baruch as a part of the Old Testament Canon.^[9]

Apart from the first sentence - relating to the witness of Greek Fathers - the substance of this section is almost entirely unsupported by the text of the works referenced. So there is no mention of Baruch in Augustine "On Christian Doctrine" at the points mentioned. There is a mention in Augustine's "City of God", but that is negative; in that a quotation taken from "The Book of Baruch" is proposed by Augustine as likely not by Baruch, but by Jeremiah. Furthermore, in all the supposed supporting citations from Synods (in the best manuscripts), it is Jeremiah that is being stated as canonical, not Baruch. Boagaert ( “Le livre de Baruch dans les manuscrits de la Bible latine. Disparition et réintégration,” Revue bénédictine 115 (2005): 286–342) has studied this whole matter in detail, and proposes that in the Latin West, Baruch (and the Letter of Jeremiah) are never recognised as distinct from the Book of Jeremiah until the 9th/10th century. Hence, when a Latin Father cites a text from Baruch as inspired, it cannot be inferred that they are citing the 'Book of Baruch' as canonical, only that they are citing Jeremiah as canonical (which no Christian tradition has ever disputed). In simple terms; the Old Latin text of the bible included three sets of additions to the book of Jeremiah - Baruch, Letter of Jeremiah and Lamentations; but only Lamentations is included as canonical in the early Vulgate tradition.

Bogaert proposes that the first fifteen verses of Baruch originated as an extended final section of LXX Jeremiah - which is radically different from Hebrew Jeremiah, and which ended with Chapter 45. TomHennell (talk) 13:49, 9 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ of Alexandria, Athansius. CHURCH FATHERS: Letter 39 (Athanasius). newadvent. Retrieved 14 October 2016.
^ of Jerusalem, Cyril. Catechetical Lecture 4 Chapter 35. newadvent. Retrieved 12 October 2016.
^ Williams, translated by Frank (1987). The Panarion of Epiphanius of Salamis 8:6:1-3 (2. impression. ed.). Leiden: E.J. Brill. ISBN 9004079262. Archived from the original on 6 September 2015. Retrieved 11 October 2016. {{cite book}}: Unknown parameter |deadurl= ignored (|url-status= suggested) (help)
^ Westcott, Brooke Foss (2005). A general survey of the history of the canon of the New Testament Page 570 (6th ed.). Eugene, Oregon: Wipf & Stock. ISBN 1597522392.
^ of Laodicea, Synod. Synod of Laodicea Canon 60. newadvent. Retrieved 12 October 2016.
^ "Canon XXIV. (Greek xxvii.)", The Canons of the 217 Blessed Fathers who assembled at Carthage, Christian Classics Ethereal Library
^ Council of Carthage (A.D. 419) Canon 24
^ of Hippo, Augustine. On Christian Doctrine Book II Chapter 8:2. newadvent. Retrieved 12 October 2016.
^ http://www.tertullian.org/decretum_eng.htm

use of Baruch Cath church

also 2nd Sunday of Advent, year C: Baruch 5:1-9 --142.163.194.149 (talk) 17:42, 4 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

[1] Alexandria, Athansius. CHURCH FATHERS: Letter 39 (Athanasius). newadvent. Retrieved 14 October 2016.

[2] Jerusalem, Cyril. Catechetical Lecture 4 Chapter 35. newadvent. Retrieved 12 October 2016.

[3] Williams, translated by Frank (1987). The Panarion of Epiphanius of Salamis 8:6:1-3 (2. impression. ed.). Leiden: E.J. Brill. ISBN 9004079262. Archived from the original on 6 September 2015. Retrieved 11 October 2016. {{cite book}}: Unknown parameter |deadurl= ignored (|url-status= suggested) (help)

[4] Westcott, Brooke Foss (2005). A general survey of the history of the canon of the New Testament Page 570 (6th ed.). Eugene, Oregon: Wipf & Stock. ISBN 1597522392.

[5] Laodicea, Synod. Synod of Laodicea Canon 60. newadvent. Retrieved 12 October 2016.

[6] "Canon XXIV. (Greek xxvii.)", The Canons of the 217 Blessed Fathers who assembled at Carthage, Christian Classics Ethereal Library

[7] Council of Carthage (A.D. 419) Canon 24

[8] Hippo, Augustine. On Christian Doctrine Book II Chapter 8:2. newadvent. Retrieved 12 October 2016.

[9] ttp://www.tertullian.org/decretum_eng.htm

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