Talk:Cabinet of Japan

The Tom,

If this article is going to be moved please contact a user with administrative powers to do it because if you copy and paste it destroys the edit history. But first could you explain your reasons for the move? Is "Cabinet of Japan" a more official term?

Iota 13:35, 20 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Japanese Cabinet → Cabinet of Japan

Better wikipediawide consistency both in terms of "Cabinet of xxx" name structure for all Westminster-model democracies (ie Cabinet of the United Kingdom, Cabinet of Australia, Cabinet of Canada) and "xxx of Japan" name structure for all articles about Japanese political institutions (ie Diet of Japan, Constitution of Japan, Prime Minister of Japan). Presently impeded by a double-edit. -- The Tom 00:57, 26 Dec 2004 (UTC)

• For sake of aesthetics and consistency, Support. I do have my problems with United States Cabinet but I won't get into that issue. —ExplorerCDT 02:01, 26 Dec 2004 (UTC)
• Well, there's definitely a large can of worms at play here. Dare I point interested eyes to Wikipedia:Naming conventions (government departments and ministers)? -- The Tom 04:24, 26 Dec 2004 (UTC)
  • DARE I POINT OUT THAT YOU CREATED THE ARTICLE FOUR HOURS BEFORE YOU POSTED THE COMMENT IMMEDIATELY ABOVE!?!?!?!?!?! [1]—ExplorerCDT 15:29, 28 Dec 2004 (UTC)
• Support mildly. It's worth pointing out that "Japanese Cabinet" gets 16,700 Google hits, whereas "Cabinet of Japan" gets only 640. That would explain why the article was named "Japanese Cabinet" in the first place: That's how it's most often referred to in news articles. But, neither is the cabinet's official name (in Japan it's simply "the Cabinet"), so I support for the reasons ExplorerCDT gave above.
• Support. Silly question but do any of the Google hits refer to furniture produced in Japan? Timrollpickering 11:42, 27 Dec 2004 (UTC)
  • Comment: it's also worth pointing out that the use of Japanese in almost all contexts (except when talking about the "the Japanese", or just naming the language), but especially in the phrase Japanese Cabinet is an intrinsically adjectival syntax. —ExplorerCDT 15:24, 28 Dec 2004 (UTC)
• Comment: Wikipedia:Naming conventions (government departments and ministers) is worth looking at... this is part of a larger issue... —Tkinias 23:14, 27 Dec 2004 (UTC)
  • NOTE User:The Tom only created that article on December 26, 2004 [2] —ExplorerCDT 15:29, 28 Dec 2004 (UTC)
    • Uh, yes, you're right, I did. I saw this one particular page move as the tip of a bigger iceberg, and decided to start a broader discussion where people could see if we wanted a policy on these matters or not. If nobody wants one, then we won't have one, and I certainly won't appeal to one to justify any moves now or in the future. -The Tom 02:57, 29 Dec 2004 (UTC)
• Support. Although if they redirect to the same thing, and neither one of them is right according to actual Japanese governmental stuff, does it really make a hell of a difference? SECProto 03:44, Jan 3, 2005 (UTC)

Minister of State

This article states that all members other than the Prime Minister are called Ministers of State. Yet the list and the relevant articles about them only calls them "Minister of X" (Minister for Foreign Affairs (Japan), Minister of the Environment (Japan), etc.). Can someone confirm what the exact translation of 大臣 is? And should they be called "Minister of State for Foreign Affairs" and so on? 81.249.6.191 (talk) 19:30, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Not sure what you mean by "the exact translation" since various translations are possible. The Prime Minister's Office maintains a Web site with an English page at http://www.kantei.go.jp/foreign/hukudadaijin/070926/index_e.html. That gives what might be taken as the official English title of each member of the Cabinet. Some have "of State" in the title and some do not. Fg2 (talk) 21:04, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

I was just pointing out a contradiction with what the article states. In your link, apparently only ministers who don't head a ministry are called Ministers of State. 83.204.177.107 (talk) 15:02, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

"Minister of State" is:

1. The English translation of kokumu daijin, i.e. any member of the cabinet including the PM. Note that no individual minister, not even a "Minister of State²", is casually referred to as kokumu daijin in Japanese. The term is generally used when the cabinet ministers are referred to collectively and in more formal, particularly legal contexts (for example, the constitution uses kokumu daijin). So, it’s simply gaimu-daijin, "Minister of/for Foreign Affairs", not "Minister of State for Foreign Affairs"; yet he is one of the Ministers of State.
2. The Kantei's Engrish translation (on its English website) of naikaku-fu tokumei tantō daijin which might be more literally translated to English as "Minister for special affairs at the Cabinet Office". These are the "ministers of state" in the cabinet lists on the Kantei's Engrish website. The positions were created in accordance with the naikaku-fu-setchi-hō, the law that established the Cabinet Office in the reform of the central government in 2001. They deal with more or less permanent issues, such as the Southern Kuriles ("Northern Territories") or the regulation of the financial sector. And they have a budget via the Cabinet Office. Some such as the economic and fiscal policy ministers replaced ministerial heads of agencies (in this case the Keizai-kikaku-chō, the "economic planning agency") that were abolished or attached to other ministries (e.g. the Kin’yū-chō, the "financial services agency") in the reform of 2001.
   The other listed ministerial posts that do not lead a ministry are not naikaku-fu tokumei tantō daijin, but additional responsibilities that are assigned to any minister of state¹ and can include short-term tasks such as the current quake, tsunami and nuclear issues. Theses posts are not necessarily created by a special law, their tasks are often covered by the budget of the naikaku-kambō, the Cabinet Secretariat.

See ja:国務大臣, ja:特命担当大臣 or the Kantei's Japanese website for further details. --Asakura Akira (talk) 08:57, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Cabinet of Albania which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RM bot 19:46, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

How many ministers?

Our introduction says the Cabinet consists of the Prime Minister and up to fourteen other members. However, our "Current Cabinet of Japan" lists nineteen ministers. Can anyone explain the discrepancy? Is the limit 14 for Ministers of State -- in which case, is there a limit on the number of other Ministers? Nathant408 (talk) 00:57, 19 July 2014 (UTC)

The limit is PM+14, but, this may be raised to 17 in "special circumstances". See naikaku-hō (Cabinet Law), Art. 2 (English translation) [Politician: Dealing with "special circumstances" sounds like my job description. And then you get these nagging calls from faction leaders and aspiring backbenchers who'd rather want a ministerial post than just a committee chair or a vice-minister or ... Hm ... Let's make it 17 more or less permanently!] (Note on the term "backbenchers": In both houses of the Diet, these actually sit in the front rows. The most senior politicians sit up in the back row (convenient and sensible in an ageing society: out-of-plain-camera-sight sleepers, if necessary – it's a very tiring job, especially if you're over 70...). Just watch the next PM election on TV, after the count is announced, the prime minister-designate usually stands up far in the back [so far: always in the House of Representatives] to take congratulations.)

So, the de facto limit is PM+17, but, sometimes a major disaster strikes. The Reconstruction Agency and a Reconstruction Minister were created in 2012 – time-limited to 2021. This one doesn't count toward the limit.

So, since 2012 the de facto limit is PM+18, but, sometimes a small disaster strikes and the IOC comes by to receive innocent presents from personal friends look if you are capable of hosting a major corporate sales operation coinciding by chance with a major government spending program a major sporting event. Since 2015, there is another ministerial post under the "Special measures law" for the Olympic & Paralympic Games – obviously expiring when the Games are over. And [you guessed it], it does not count towards the limit.

So, at least for the time being [i.e. until something else comes up that is not covered by "special circumstances" but rather a special law that creates another minister], the de facto limit is PM+19. Until today, the cabinet had 20 members, one prime minister and 19 other ministers (Right now: one less as Kishida has taken over Inada's job today, see List of ministers [Japanese, the pages for English/Chinese-speaking foreigners are apparently not yet updated]; but there will be a cabinet reshuffle [if not a change of prime minister] soon.)

As for "Minister of State", see #Ministers of State – all members of the cabinet are ministers of state¹, regardless of how their titles are translated to English at one time or the other and regardless of how many posts one person holds concurrently. (Don't put too much trust into Japanese bureaucrats as English interpreters. At least, the English government webpages usually contain a note of caution and say "provisional translation". "Provisional" even years after the cabinet that put the page up has resigned, "provisional" forever. "Unofficial and just as good or bad as (often: worse than) a translation by anyone on Wikipedia" would be nearer the mark, because 1. English is not an official language, and 2. in spite of significant improvements over the decades, Engrish is still widespread. [Don't get me wrong, that's not meant as a reproach; the cultural gap is wide, and I doubt if the Japanese pages of, say, UK government institutions are much better if they exist at all. I am baffled though – to put it mildly – by the ease with which in East Asian countries you can sell almost anything that has a remote resemblance to English as a "translation" or even as an "official" "name" to some Euro-Atlantic foreigners who are paid to get things right (such as some journalists), even if it has not the faintest connection to the actual name.]) More recently, there is even a third closely-related variant, as the Kantei now also translates fuku-daijin (literally and until recently "Vice Minister" – these are not Ministers of State) as "State Minister" on its English pages to confuse English-speakers a little more... --Asakura Akira (talk) 15:45, 28 July 2017 (UTC)

List of Current Ministers and their portfolios

after comparing the information on this page to the information provided on the Japanese Prime ministers office website it has become necessary to edit and reassign ministries portfolios. https://japan.kantei.go.jp/99_suga/meibo/daijin/index_e.html thanks 10:01, 25 May 2021 (UTC) Avi Smoler 25/05/2021

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:

• Yamagiwa Daijiro.png

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 12:53, 5 October 2021 (UTC)