Talk:Royal Canadian Mounted Police

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Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 08:24, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Women in the RCMP/Role in colonization

These are two sections that are very similar - they talk about a specific but unique part of the RCMP's history - but are formatted differently. At the moment Women in the RCMP is its own category, while Role in colonization is a subcategory of the History section. Should they both be moved to the History section, or should Role in colonization be made into its own category to be consistent with Women in the RCMP? The content from Women in the RCMP could also maybe be folded into the general historical narrative. ReactionEquipment (talk) 01:06, 14 August 2022 (UTC)

Agreed, there is redundancy. I think it might be worth it to have a completely separate section titled "Controversies" that could link to List of Controversies involving the Royal Canadian Mounted Police for a more in-depth description of incidents. Women in the RCMP subsection would fit into Controversies as there have been a number of investigations into workplace culture highlighting misogyny. Subsection could also be "RCMP relationship with women" to capture a broader experience than just female RCMP employees. Other sections allude to Indigenous women and MMIWG investigations that would fit well under this subsection. Colonialism section certainly needs to be expanded, the fact that Project SITKA isn't mentioned says that this is really lacking! Controversies could include: use of force, women, colonialism, racism, privacy infringement (linking to PROFUNC page and RCMP Security Service page) and misuse of funds to start. Privacy infringement could include mention of relationship with private sector (some CRCC investigations touch on this) or it could be distinguished in its own right as some aspects of this controversy are simply about the relationship alone (like C-IRG). Thoughts on sections would be appreciated! 17dsrd (talk) 21:00, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

There was a controversies section ages ago, but I think it got folded into the general history narrative and gradually edited out (I might have done some of that, my bad :P). I think a controversies section would honestly do the page well. If we do add one, I think it could maybe look like this:

==Controversies and criticisms==

===Structural criticisms===

(Concerns about Depot, contract policing, etc could go here)

===Role in colonization===

(I'm still not decided if this goes better in history or here, it kinda fits well in both and I think a decent chunk of the controversy stems from the fact that they were and are still colonizing, not just for the way in which they're doing it)

===Workplace sexual misconduct===

(working title, could honestly be expanded to cover corporate culture as a whole - beyond misconduct, there's a culture of opaqueness and centralized decision-making about which there has been enough noteworthy controversy to discuss)

===Privacy infringement===

(PROFUNC, 1960s barn burning, project sitka, probably also facial recognition - I don't think this title totally captures it though. Maybe internal espionage?)

===Corruption===

(Savoie incident, probably that recent arrest of the retired federal detective could go under here too)

Given that the article is already this long, I don't think it'd be fair to try and add use of force controversies, not in the least because that's usually the realm of individual detachments, not the force as a whole as these other controversies are. Maybe some, like the killing of Robert Dziekanski might warrant a mention though?

I think the current "Women in the RCMP" subsection, which has since been folded into the History category, could stay as-is or be integrated with the rest of the historical narrative (which is what's currently done for racialized mounties). I think it's worth separating it from the sexual misconduct because A) women do have a distinct but not necessarily controversial history in the RCMP and B) the sexual misconduct includes both women and men as victims as well as perpetrators. ReactionEquipment (talk) 04:14, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

Maintiens le droit

It is getting a bit tiresome having to amend the translation of Maintiens le droit. I think some of these translations must be coming from users who have no knowledge of French. If that describes you, would you please desist from posting translations, even if you find said translation at a source, as there seem to be plenty of RCMP officers who know no French.

Maintiens le droit does not mean "Maintain the right" (and yes, I know that online translation websites will translate it that way, but they are notorious for not realizing what the context is). This would be Maintiens le bien in French. Le droit only means "the right" in French if the speaker or writer means "the unassailable entitlement", such as the right to a fair trial by one's peers or a citizen's right to vote in elections (which is what the online translation websites assume, not knowing the context). "Defend the law" is a bit of a free translation (ie somewhat inexact), but perhaps a fair one. "Maintain the right", on the other hand, is a load of guff.

Maintiens le droit means "Uphold the law".Kelisi (talk) 02:48, 21 October 2022 (UTC)

Reverted to the previous phrasing. The translations are not coming from Google, or people who are unfamiliar with French. They are coming from three Canadian government cites: the Gov Gen's grant of the badge and motto, and two RCMP webpages. We have to rely on the what the reliable cites say, not personal opinions. If you have a reliable cite that contradicts the GovGen's and the RCMP's own websites, please provide it. Otherwise, I think we have to keep with what the Gov Gen and the RCMP give as the meaning of the motto. Mr Serjeant Buzfuz (talk) 03:03, 21 October 2022 (UTC)

They are not reliable sites just because they are government sites, and I was stating facts, not opinions. I remind you that the Governor General only recently began learning French; so what might she know about the RCMP's motto? Why don't you contact a few bilingual francophone Wikipedians? You ought to consider them a more reliable source than any website maintained by people who don't speak French (and you are wrong about the translations not coming from people who are unfamiliar with French, I assure you). You obviously don't speak French yourself, but I do. Cette traduction n’est pas juste. Elle a été faite par quelqu’un dont les connaissances du français étaient minimales. Je devrais mentionner aussi que les références à l’autorité sont une faute de logique. On ne peut pas présumer que c’est un fait seulement parce que c’est une autorité qui le déclare.Kelisi (talk) 04:28, 21 October 2022 (UTC)

just as Wikipedia is not a reliable source, neither are individual wikipedians. « Because a wikipedian says so » is WO:ORIGINAL and therefore not allowed. Not is it a logical error to appeal to authority; Wikipedia is based on the concept of reliable sources, which is intrinsically an appeal to authority, rather than personal knowledge. I would also disagree with your statement that government websites are not reliable sources. Nor it is appropriate for you to make personal attacks by questioning other editors’ knowledge sets. Finally, since the purpose of a talk page is to allow all interested editors to participate in the discussion, I would suggest that you should make your comments in the language of the particular variant of Wikipedia in which you are posting. Mr Serjeant Buzfuz (talk) 05:30, 21 October 2022 (UTC)

Condensing the lead

The lead is too long and this has been tagged as an issue since February. There is my suggestion to condense it, I will upload if no one raises any issues on talk.

The Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP; French: Gendarmerie royale du Canada; GRC), commonly known in English as the Mounties (and colloquially in French as la police montée), is the national police service of Canada. The RCMP is an agency of the Government of Canada; it also delivers police services under contract to eight provinces, all three territories, over 150 municipalities, and 600 Indigenous communities.

The Royal Canadian Mounted Police was established in 1920 with the amalgamation of the Royal North-West Mounted Police and the Dominion Police. Sworn members of the RCMP have jurisdiction as a peace officer in all provinces and territories of Canada. Under its federal mandate, the RCMP is responsible for enforcing federal legislation; investigating inter-provincial and international crime; border integrity; overseeing Canadian peacekeeping missions involving police; managing the Canadian Firearms Program, which licenses and registers firearms and their owners; and the Canadian Police College, which provides police training to Canadian and international police services. Policing is considered to be a constitutional responsibility of provinces, however, the RCMP provides local police services under contract in all provinces and territories except Ontario and Quebec. Despite its name, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police are no longer an actual mounted police service, and horses are only used at ceremonial events and certain other occasions. —WildComet ^talk 21:44, 8 October 2023 (UTC)

{{Reply to|WildComet}}

This looks fantastic, I especially like the succinct explanation of contract policing. My only notes are:

- I think given the decades-long controversy in the public, policing world, and RCMP itself about its mandate, a small note after the list of roles that says that the RCMP has faced criticism for its broad mandate/that the mandate is controversial;

- I would maybe say "Policing in Canada is considered to be a constitutional..." rather than simply "policing is considered.." for clarity; and finally,

- It may be worth including a third, brief paragraph that summarizes the RCMP's cultural role? Something along the lines of "The Government of Canada considers the RCMP to be an unofficial national symbol, and in 2013, 87 per cent of Canadians interviewed by Statistics Canada said that the RCMP was important to their national identity." or similar.

This is probably the only police force in the world that is simultaneously beloved internationally, considered a symbol of national unity, and almost universally lambasted in the press and parliament - I think mentioning the controversy as well as the cultural role captures the nuanced, verifiable space that the RCMP currently occupies in Canada. ReactionEquipment (talk) 04:35, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

Great, I went ahead and added it with your suggestions. —WildComet ^talk 18:21, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

References

New Guidon

As of 2023, the RCMP has a new guidon, and the photo needs to be updated. https://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/en/guidon 128.189.152.10 (talk) 16:42, 24 October 2023 (UTC)